Centralisation gets green light
July 8, 2010
Written by Alan Good, in International, Latest Stories, News
The Irish Hockey Association yesterday gave the go-ahead to controversial plans to centralise the women’s senior hockey team in Dublin for 10 months.
The IHA board has given their approval to a Central Preparation Programme (CPP), which the national body say will “facilitate a core, intensive preparation program” in a bid to qualify for the Olympics in London in 2012.
Senior women’s coach Gene Muller envisages that 20 of the 25 players currently selected for the Irish panel will be in a position to be located in Dublin for the initial time period.
Gene Muller: believes centralisation is a "significant step forward" for the Irish women's hockey team. Picture: Deryck Vincent
Those unable to make the move will continue training at a local level in midweek and join the full squad for Sunday and Monday training sessions.
Heated debate over the merits of the programme has been ongoing since news of the plan broke in February.
The concept has drawn intense criticism from high-profile figures within the game, who have condemned it as impractical and fear ruinous consequences for club hockey.
An IHA spokesperson yesterday said Muller will write to clubs next week to outline the practicals of the plan in detail, and stressed that no pressure will be placed on players to move to Dublin clubs.
IHA high performance director David Passmore added that the previous practice of completely withdrawing players from club hockey in the build-up to major tournaments will not be necessary under the new format.
The core Irish panel likely to be involved in the new setup is likely to be announced in the aftermath of the series with Scotland at the end of this month.
Players selected to take part in the CPP will continue to compete for their clubs as the weekly schedule makes provisions for weekend club hockey – except for scheduled breaks or international events – while also enabling players to prepare midweek with their clubs for ESB Irish Senior Cup and Irish Hockey League matches.
Muller also has provision to invite additional athletes into the programme.
“(The CPP) will enable the majority of players to train together on a regular basis in one location,” the IHA said in a statement. “It will help address critical technical and tactical weaknesses, and facilitate more intense, frequent and higher quality training sessions.
The Irish women must improve on last year's fifth-placed finish in Europe to qualify for the Olympics. Picture: Ondine Roche
“A programme of this nature makes the periodisation of the Irish training and competition programme feasible. Under the previous system it was difficult to control training variables to develop and peak the team.”
Muller yesterday termed the plan “a significant move forward”, and said their training environment will be in line with many of the top international teams as a result.
“The main aim is to improve our chances of international success,” he added. “This plan cannot work without player buy-in, and our players have been fantastic in endorsing and driving this process.”
To qualify for the Olympics, Ireland must either finish fourth at the preceding European championships in 2011, or enter into a winner-takes-all qualification group.
The former is the preferable route, but the jump from fifth – where Ireland finished at the 2009 Euros in Amsterdam – to fourth is a significant leap in standards, which has thus far proved beyond Muller’s troops.
Current Irish skipper Eimear Cregan therefore believes that centralisation is a key step if the side is to have a shot at reaching the Olympics.
“I have no doubt this will maximise our potential as a team, as well as providing us with a fantastic opportunity to qualify for the Olympics,” said the Limerick native.
“The current squad is hugely committed and dedicated, and I firmly believe each player will work extremely hard to make this a success. I am also pleased that the IHA has been able to accommodate those who are unable to centralise due to their work commitments.”
The women’s budget that incorporates the CPP will be allocated in line with previous year’s budgets, funded through Irish Sports Council, Sport Northern Ireland and sponsors ESB, who have all backed the venture, along with the Sports Institute of Northern Ireland and the Irish Institute of Sport.
C.P.P. and then an admittance of lack of technical and tactical awareness. Lack of control with training variables. At no time on the statement does it mention when or who may be selected and this is left to THE HOOK to suggest post the Scottish series that selection will then take place. WANTED FORWARDS on another blog may get their wish but I would suggest that the net be cast further and encompass all player/positions.
Agism should not be a factor and as currently in vogue by the coach of 10 minute rotations all consideration and avenues should be explored to attempt to bring back some previous internationals . TWO of thIs group are plying their trade at CORK HARLEQUINS and would solve midfield short-comings and forward scoring ability.
basketball….I am a huge fan of both harlequin players who I believe you are referring to….Fantastic players and true legends of the game that have done munster proud but to suggest that they should be brought back into the fold is absolutely ludicrous. seriously…. they would not be up to it with both of them being what age ? 36? ya two 38 year olds on the irish team going to london 2012…… they may still have the brain and skill for it but def dont have it in the legs!!
would have to agree with you on the lack of info on selected players………
who would they be
ah, you can play that game across the board. Jenny Burke showed plenty of class this season to suggest she still is a top class player, Cathy McKean is still lively. at finals weekend a couple of the pegasus women who used to be internationals were their key players. Guess its the nature of women’s game to retire about 28 or so.
as for this plan, so players are moving to Dublin but not moving clubs? so players will nip back to Cork for a saturday game and then back to dub for sunday and monday – is the iHA paying mileage on that?
Believe me wanted forwards is not getting their wish. This is only going to suck more and more players out of Cork and Munster. It will lead to youth players rather than applying for UCC, heading for UCD DCU etc to “Give themselves a chance of playing for Ireland”. Clubs in Munster are only going to be further away from winning national titles.
Munster will lose big time from this programme.
Has no one, Irish Board, Sports Council, High Performance Director, actually stopped to think, this is the largest programme we have ever put together for Iish hockey and we are giving it to a fella (Coach) who has proved over the last 3 years that he cannnot win at International level. And for all those again who say he has a young squad they are developing etc etc etc blah blah blah. He selectes the team, he selects the tactics, and ultimately he gets the results (or does not as the case may be).
Rather than support ireland the Munster Branch should be speaking out against this programme, they have been very quiet, I wonder will they even say anything. One think about John Rose was that he always spoke out, rightly or wrongly, mostly the latter but at least Munster existed then.
By the way Emer Creegan had to support this proposal as on the evidence of last week (against Australia), if she didnt she would be out. Poor fitness and looks devoid of ideas, and skill.
In relation to the two ladies from Harlequins, I’m sure they could both play at that level again if they wanted to, but I wonder how they would feel about up-rooting and going to Dublin? To play for a fella who does not know what he is doing.
Refer back to my previous argument re Centre backs, Louisa Moore (FW), Shirley McKay (MF), Nikki Symmonns (MF) have all been tried there over the past 3 years for significant portions of the programme, Euros, Qualifiers etc. I’m sure Karen and Rachel would love to go back and play Centre back!!!!
Have been busy trying to stay afloat in business hence quiet TG i hear.This centralization is totally ignoring the clubs.players lives,family lives.Iknow it suits the coaches because most live in Dublin .The clubs had no say in it there should be a EGM called ,Munster branch have said nothing which is par for the course as they play the political game and to hell with the clubs.How can Munster clubs attract good players and fans? Well sorry they have gone from the sport ,look at the 20 people or so that were at the Ladies playoff this season.Taking the best players away from the Munster league will only make thinks worse,scrap the Munster League now and go for a 3 tier AIL so that all clubs and players are cartered for and that we can have sone sort of interest in looking at matches and sponsoring teams.Whats in it for a propective sponsor except that you want to support great club teams,you getting nothing out of it as far as business is concerned as there is nobdy at matchesand only press photos if you organise it yourself .Ithink its about 2 years since i saw a pic of a Munster league on the Examiner.Teams that win trophys are presenteed them at some Do and not after the finals .Does the brancH have and idea on marketing,Shame on the IHA,YOU ARE GOING THE RIGHT WAY TO BREAK CLUBS,both financially and support for them on anD off the field
Bango, God NO the IHA wont be paying Mileage for that. The girls are free to play with their own clubs, must must cover the cost of travelling back for club matches themseleves.
This is Exactly why all the Girls will play in Dublin? as they dont have the money to be training full time and driving home to Cork, limerick or Belfast each weekend. Its another way that the IHA and Muller can protect themselevs, saying we gave them the option and they choose to saty in Dublin. Money dictates this so I dont think they have any choice at all.
Muller says “The main aim is to improve our chances of international success,” he added. “This plan cannot work without player buy-in, and our players have been fantastic in endorsing and driving this process.” Have they really been given a choice or an alternative option or does what gene proposes Go?
Reality check required this is only a 10 month program its not going to have that big of an impact on munster hockey! Infact it might help to allow more talent thorough granted dublin club’s are in a better position but this is only for one season there is now an opportunity for the others to develop younger players look at Catholic Inst and what a season they have had and will have next season this can only be a good thing. There is no point complaining and winging about unkown’s let’s leave that till at the end of the qualification process then we will all know for certain but at the moment it looks like a massive step for irish hockey in the right direction.
You need a reality check “Anon 12.58 pm”. What do you think will happen if this is successful? It will be continued & expanded. Also, if it is not a success this time, we will be told that it requires a lot more time and will need to be extended & expanded into the future. Net result is that all top + up & coming players will head to Dublin to improve their chamces of selection. The standard in Leinster clubs will rise higher than at present & Munster clubs will become feeder clubs. This is absolutely crazy.
ANON,which i hate,be nice to know who is having a view, Anyway did the clubs have a vote on this did the squad have a say in it, is all about building up Dublin clubs and making it handy for coaches,Coaches should go to the proviences and watch more matches sorry have we not many fine coaches around the country,the clubs look after their players from an early stage and now the IHA with no mandate from the clubs ,who are suppose to be THE ASSOCIATION order these players to change their lives,sorry EGM,or is one one man one vote gone ,or women??
i can see why they want this plan, but i dont want too sound harsh but with or without this centrilisation plan. i cant see them qualifying.
sorry girls wish you would but cant see it happening. its juz guna be a waste of money. instead of spending money on this stupid plan, we should invest the money a different way into hockey. piontless plan i think, we have quality……………….but not enough, let clubs enjoy themselves.
having said that……………the next 10 months cud be interesting and entertaining. respect to the players not the organisers.
Hockey Fan // Bango I would suggest that natural ability far outstrips possible leg weariness. The issue in question is to QUALIFY for the OLYMPICS.
The American swim team change swimmers for the relays and the unit which swims in the semi-finals does not always make the final.My point is to maximise our opportunity for progression by selecting players with PROVEN ABILITY in areas which need direct intervention. Even CAPELLO approached SCOLES prior to their jaunt to Africa.The coach has intimated that he would look at all circumstances and I believe he should.
” This plan cannot work with-out player buy in,and our players have been fantastic in endorsing and driving this process ” and sure why not if you are one of the 20/25 on the inside looking out rather than waiting on the sidelines for the next 2 years in International Limbo.
I find it fascinating that, other than Pat Dawson, no one on this site will put their name to their negative comments and so many border on liable. If you have a read of the Leinster Blog where people have to now put their names to their comments there has hardly been a comment to any of the reports – and none on this central program.
I suggest it is only a question of time before Alan is slapped with a law suit which I am sure none of us want to see. I say this because I suspect many comments are coming from outside the province. I think good debate is a healthy thing if it has a positive impact on our sport. I know many children (and their parents) who read this site and we are hardly saying welcome to a proactive forward thinking sport are we. I have no strong views on this area but am aware that in most other countries something similar exists. You may criticise me for not adding my name but I haven’t abused anyone, said anything with an agenda or made and controversial misinformed personalised comment. When I do I will add my name.
Madonhockey
I would imagine a couple of the more extremist posters from The Hook have migrated here so they can have their say alright. I don’t blame Stephen for shutting down anonymous comments at all, but I also think his visitor numbers have probably fallen a fair bit as a result.
People now expect to be able to comment anonymously on stuff online but it is dangerous in the small world of Irish hockey where everyone knows each other. Alan has said before that he is worried his judgment wil let him down and he’ll be left with a lawsuit and I fear the same thing. I would hate to see southern fried go the way of planet fieldhockey.
As for the cpp, they have taken a chance but there is big pressure on them to qualify now. Based on recent results I don’t think we have the quality at the moment in any case.
What do you have to say to be Libel? I thought it was ok if it was true?
Say for instance: Gene Muller should not have been given the go ahead for centralisation as his record with ireland is too poor?
A lot of olympic sports centralise their players in the run up to an olympics. Hockey is not professional in Ireland but to be sucessful, players and support teams need treat it professionally. Are the players signed up to this? If yes, then more power to them. Pardon my ignorance but how many players does this affect in Munster? Will other aspiring Full International players graduating from JAG teams be asked to centralise over time also or will it be a closed shop to aspiring players?
I agree with some comments on our more seasoned players, if they have a role to play and are good enough and are willing to dedicate as much to the cause as the current crop of players, then why not?? I would have no issues with any retired player coming back to play. The only caveat would be that they would need to be better than what is currently available.
The issues will Club Hockey in Munster will not be exaspirated by a select group of players leaving. Maybe it will be the forcing function for people to get off their asses and agree on a cohesive long term vision for munster hockey (including player development, club development, youth, vets, marketing, finance etc…) for all standards of hockey in a province that has such a proud tradition in our sport.
In tandem, the IHA need to look at how to grow club hockey participation, be that by developing new leagues, spring/summer hockey, indoors for ALL levels and ALL standards. If you want to centralise, its important that you dont forget about the clubs. the IRFU centralised the elite players to provinces and central training camps. They essentially lost focus on the club scene and AIL leagues and its only now that its been re-focused upon. Dont make the same mistake IHA!
Life goes on guys, hockey will be played, we will all still enjoy it.
B…
This is going to be very difficult for all.
The clubs and the sport ultimately may suffer.
The clubs have been forgotten as they did not have a say, direct contact should have been made to the clubs and not through the branch representatives.
The first event that will suffer is the I.H.L. as if all the players due to lack of finance have to play in Dublin the leinster teams will be even stronger and the Munster and who know the Ulster teams are likely to be weaker. So it would be completetly unfair to run the league for the next two or three seasons. Who is going to turn up and watch farcically one sided matches, money is to scarce for that.
I personally feel that if the clubs and the schools see this happening the players will walk to other sports, some schools are already dropping teams for next year and this decision I think will cause more players to walk and more teams to be pulled.
To Response:
July 9, 2010 at 2:49 pm
You may be of the opinion that gene’s record is too poor to allow the CPP to go ahead, but that doesn’t make it a fact.
pity you didnt say what you said here to Gene’s face or maybe put your name to the comments when you are making a negative statement about someone else.
well done to the IHA and Gene Muller for going ahead with the CPP….has to be done to make qualification for the Olympics possible…..if you look at any other olympic sport and athletes looking to go to the olympics they all have to go that extra yard with training to make things happen…
To Anon:
July 9, 2010 at 5:04 pm
I dont think munster clubs will suffer badly as a result…. the munster players which may go to dublin would be eimear cregan, cliodhana Sargent Julia O halloran and Audrey O FLynn….. eimear cregan in the last two years has played how many club games?? very few i think…… O’Halloran and o flynn are both finished with ucc this year i think so who knows where they were going to go after ucc….no guarantees that they were going to stay in cork even if cpp program didnt go ahead…… so really you are talking about the munster league losing 3 players……….thats nothing……..
Centralisation can actually include more players, if players come into form, and show the coach that they should be included he would be mad not to drop an out of form player and bring in and inform player.
Thats the reality, you have to drop players in and out depending on their form.
Any player out of school now can be brought to Dublin
and will the irish branch provide the finances for these players 2 travel and everytin. money dont grow on trees
To anon on July 9, 2010 at 5:09 pm Do you think these girls dont train just as hard regionally, what do you think they have been doing all along? Muppet
My point was Gene has an extremely poor record with Ireland – FACT
Why reward failure with this chance, get a good coach and id back it 100%
To Response:
July 9, 2010 at 11:22 pm
You are a great man/woman name calling while behind an anonymous post…would really love to know who you are…. and why do you have such strong feelings about the whole thing and care so much? are you a player involved ? (dont think so as i have been talking to one player involved and she said there has been a great buy in from the players)
It’s not a question of how hard the girls train regionally….four/five munster girls training regionally every week as opposed to them being involved in a session in Dublin with 20 players….You don’t need me to explain which is the better scenario for player improvement….You could say bulk up the numbers at the munster sessions but that defeats the purpose of having a regional session…it would be like a normal club session and the standard would drop greatly.
It’s the only way to go if they want to qualify for the olympics………
And on Gene’s record….don’t blame him, blame the players. The right players are there but just havn’t performed.
In response to ‘Wanted Forwards?’ I don’t think its fair to leave comments on individual players up. These girls have given up years of their life to represent their country playing a sport that they love. You know nothing about any of these girls or what they go through so back off on naming names. To criticise any players performances based on one or twos matches someone saw one weekend against top class opposition it unfair and should not be allowed to be posted.
Show some respect for the girls even if you don’t for Gene, at least he is getting paid.
To Anon: July 10, 2010 at 11:11 am
I would say (never mind could) bulk up the numbers at the munster sessions. you say “but that defeats the purpose of having a regional session…it would be like a normal club session and the standard would drop greatly”. How do you exactly see the standard improving in Munster, and our club sides competing on a national stage and us having the best senior leagues in ireland if players are just ripped off to Dublin.
How many clubs have in their goals or plans for the future:
To develop players who are of international standard, so that they can leave our club to go to Dublin to play for Ireland fulltime and play with Leinster clubs on weekend!
We need to strengthen club hockey in Munster, with a better league and club structure this will nurture talent more and create a bigger pool for National teams. A regional programme where 20 players from each province involved in a national setup would be much better for ireland than moving the senior panel all to Dublin?
In relation to this would drop the standard at sessions, bringing in all these players regionally.
2 problems with that:
1) Great confidence shown in the player base in Munster, would love to have you at development level in Munster Hockey. Great advocate for raising the standards.
2) The level is not so high at present that the province could not introduce extra talent to give them a chance to step up to International level. The way things are with centralisation any players of Ireland A (incedentially I believe the coaching level is extremely poor at this level too, and is under gene’s remit so he should be criticised for that too) or U21 standard, will all head to Dublin when they leave school to get a better chance of getting into Gene’s squad and as “you have to be in Dublin” to get a chance as I have heard from many young players, south and north.
How many additional 1 on 1 sessions has Gene taken with players in Dublin and is that fair (may be its a disadvantage to those players). Should the national coach not be spreading himkself around the country helping to develop regiopnal talent?
Still have not heard Munster Branch comment on this? very weak response on their part! Obviously dont care about grass roots level or development in the province.
On Genes record you say blame the players, as he has selected the right ones? So his job is just to select and they have not performed?
Congrats on speaking to a player, I have spoken to a few too! you would be surprised from what you hear from them!
Response,
Well done you make sense and live in the real world.I hope the powers that be read what you say i doubt it.
To Response
July 12, 2010 at 9:47 am
“I have spoken to a few too! you would be surprised from what you hear from them!”
What exactly would one hear??!! I’m interested in finding out
A lot of this discussion centres around club vs country, our top club’s have competed in europe this year and both have been relegated to c division and d division while our national team remains 5th in europe this is a fact. Centralisation is the best option, let the club’s and branch’s implement changed within their own structures while supporting the national approach
Hardly Think UCD can be termed a top club?
Women were ranked 5 in Europe from previous season, dindt have a chance for that to change as they didnt play euros this season. Finished 3rd (on goal difference) in WCQ when ranked 2nd.
Also Pembroke Qualified for Knock out 16 of EHL, and played an array of international superstars in HC Koln.
Still two Mens sides in EHL for next year!
Ya Clubs and Branches should just fall into line and do whatever they can to support Ireland! Following your logic you are saying as Hitler was in charge of Germany all Germans should follow him! Dont follow if you dont think its right, I dont support centralisation and wont follow it! No one in the IHA or its branches have the balls to stand against it!
Dear Mr Response: REALLY WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH? Seeing that you care so much why can’t you get a position on the Munster Branch and voice your opinions….Or are you only willing to let your thoughts known hidden behind an anonymous post……So really NOBODY wants to hear about what you have to moan about unless you put your name to your comments……
@Response
@interested observer
Any chance you two can have your debate without calling each other names? This isn’t a primary school playground, you’re both adults and I’m bored of editing out the inflammatory remarks…
This event has split the sport, it has put the men against the women.
In answer to interested observer, I would not be surprised if the men backed out of the branch. as far as I can make out, they have lost faith in the sport and those who run it.
Most observers that i have discussed this issue wtih would feel that the men have a slightly better chance of qualifying, and if any squad should get the majority of the funding it should be the men, no matter who sponsors who.
The decision has been made, the fact is it has damaged the sport badly, we have gone back to two seperate camps, maybe thats how it should be despite what the F.I.H. require.
The men look after the men and the ladies look after the ladies and neithers actions should impact on the other.
It’s funny people have targeted gene muller, his squad and program however it’s worth noting that we have a high performance director in a full time position who is responsible for what ever direction taken by irish hockey!!!! I wonder is there any performance plan past 2012
Anon July 13, 2010 at 10:21 pm
You make a good point! Gene has just been targeted as his results have been so poor he would not have stayed in a job in any serious hockey nation. Ultimately that falls to the board and the HPD. Who for all intents and purposes is MIA. Only time we (the hockey public) hear from him is when he is quoted on Irish website or when he wants something.
Wonder what is the plan post 2012?
Also interesting how when there is a junior championships in Singapore he is the one who leads the team! And U16 and 18 head coaches brought along for the ride. Way to develop extra Irish coaches. Although its not as if Ireland would appoint a senior coach who is Irish anyway long-term. Sure we cant even do that for the U17s
i agree with you alan, you should stop editing this as funny as it is, its pathetic aswell.
Anon,
If my memory serves me correctly when there was split unions the men had absolutely no money – I don’t think that can be said for the past few years. I know from having been around some of the national players in those times that nothing was made available. In 2002 and 2004 there was hardly a program or money for the men’s team. Let’s be honest here the women have a big sponsor and hockey is still seen as a women’s sport (whether we like it or not) so no doubt the sports council will always push for them first – perhaps that is why this whole thing has been given the go ahead.
I wonder how many people who come onto this site whinging and moaning have ever tried to be in a position where they can influence change. Maybe some of them have, and are no longer part of the Munster Branch set up so prefer to do their moaning behind anonymous names.
Bemused, have you ever been on the branch and tried to effect change?
You may as well be slamming your head against a brick wall. There is no such thing as change in the branch or schools! This is Munster hockey sure, we only ever jump on the bandwagon when we are told to do something by the IHA. We toe the line and dont rock the boat much to the detriment of hockey in the province, and the clubs and schools the branch represents.
what happens after centralisation!! What happens after 2012!! where is the future of irish hockey going
Ask the Branch and the IHA?
The I.H.A. will tell the branch and the branch will do what they are told.
I have been on the branch and they are never asked only told, an ordinary branch member can never make or instigate a change in central policy as they are never asked at any level.
I find it bemusing that people feel they can just have a go at the branch as if in some way all of the hockey woes that come our way down here is their fault. The branch’s main task is to ensure that hockey runs in the province and they struggle to do this because of a lack of people, how can they be expected to ”comment” on what goes on anywhere else when they are so few? It is disappointing that people are having a go at the very people who are keeping the sport alive in Munster. I’d like to see those of you behind the negativity to put yourselves on the branch and saying things like ”it won’t make a difference” is a load of rubbish. Given all they do – fixtures, youths, minihockey, interpros etc – it is very unfair to criticise them.