Cup runs dry for C of I and Pembroke
January 30, 2010
Written by Alan Good, in Club, Latest Stories, Reports
Corinthian completed the double over Munster’s top two by dumping Cork C of I out of the men’s Irish Senior Cup at Whitechurch earlier today, ending the province’s interest in the competition for another year with a 4-3 win.
The Dubliners proved their IHL win over Quins was no fluke, with South African international Darren Kimfley again the star as the 1999 champions relinquished any hopes of ending a trophy drought on the national stage that stretches back to 2003.
In a match moved to the recently-laid second pitch at St Columba’s due to frost, Kimfley gave the hosts the lead inside the first five minutes, converting a 2-on-1 after they had intercepted high up the pitch.
C of I equalised with a trademark John Jermyn drag-flick bullet into the bottom corner, then hit the front with a goal from play by Stephen Parker.
But Corinthian levelled matters again shortly before the break, courtesy of a hotly-contested penalty stroke. That was given as the umpires adjudged Phil Smith to have blocked a goal-bound drag-flick with his body, though C of I felt the ball had actually struck the former Irish international on a stick-gripping hand.
Chris Pelow did the necessary from the spot, and with Kimfley adding a reverse and Brian Doherty netting a drag-flick, while at the other end Ross Murray pulled off three stunning saves in the space of 30 seconds to keep the blue hordes at bay, until Jermyn added a futile third from a corner after the hooter had gone.
Elsewhere, Pembroke’s two-year stranglehold on the ISC trophy is over, after they lost the big Dublin derby 1-0 to Glenanne at Serpentine Avenue.
Stephen Butler’s 52nd-minute corner effort proved the difference in a game that proved a let-down as a spectacle, and was mainly noteworthy for the confusion that reigned in the endgame, as the scoreboard clock hit zero despite there being upwards of six minutes’ play left.
Lisnagarvey were the other big winners of the day, coming from a goal down to defeat Fingal 2-1 at the ALSAA, while Kilkeel struck a notable blow for Ulster hockey in seeing off YMCA – conquerors of Cork Harlequins – 3-2.
With the day’s other four ties called off due to frost, the draw for the third round has been delayed until they are completed next week.
Domestically, Catholic Institute took full advantage of UCC’s slow start at Rosbrien to eke out a 3-1 Munster Senior Cup quarter-final win.
Eric Calendar and Gareth Creamer stuck away short corner switches to put them 2-0 to the good inside 12 minutes, with Justin O’Sullivan sliding in to add another from play for a three-goal advantage at half time.
College woke up somewhat in the second half, pulling one back through top scorer Stephen Sweetnam, but wasted the guts of a dozen further corners, while Institute saw a penalty stroke come back off an upright at the other end.
Cork Harlequins put a miserable few weeks in the national arena behind them to swat aside their seconds 7-1 in a league game played on Thursday night, with Dan Hobbs’ double augmented by strikes from David Egner, Mark Black, Paul Murray, Paul Lombard and Brian Hayes Curtin.
Quins B endured further misery at the hands of Bandon today, Ger Burns’ side running out 5-0 winners with Edgar Rice’s drag-flick brace, two more from Graham Kingston and an Ali Smith effort doing the damage.
i think this result really shows the poor position munster hockey is in at the moment.the so call big two are out all ready and quins more than likely are out of the ihl.its time the munster branch got together to try and sort this mess out.i think a whole restructuring of the leagues needs to take place.as a fan of hockey and munster hockey in general it really saddens me that nobody seems to think that there is a problem and are willing to let munster hockey to get to the place where it is now.i hope people who are in a position of power see this and agree with with and take the action required..the future of munster hockey is in their hands……..
The standard in Munster is falling dramatically & very quickly. Top 3 Munster teams all knocked out by Leinster teams where the overall standard continues to improve. It is hardly surprising with so few schools playing boys hockey & the numbers playing hockey are declining within these schools. Also, hockey doesn’t seem to have the appeal that it once had to people who are involved in other sports. Harlequins are on a very serious decline with very few young players & they are starting to struggle badly at Irish level.
The people in power are the clubs themselves…they have the voting rights at the AGM and the power to put forward ammendments and proposals to move the sport forward. People are afraid as it might weaken their club’s position in the short term, but in the long term, its Munster Hockey who’ll suffer and we’ll continue to drop off away from Leinster and Ulster. A shame methinks.
Hockey is really in trouble all over the country in real terms. The numbers are falling all over the country both in the mens and ladies game.
Hockey schools in Munster are scaling back their teams so numbers have to be down at grass roots.
Munster has always had the least number of players so when numbers drop standards dropping is more noticible.
Ulster and Leinster are struggling with numbers, the number of lower teams in clubs is continuing to decline.
Leinster hockey is more skillful, but it always has been as it had more numbers. But is the drop in standards being masked by the introduction of smi professional players.
Plus the big clubs in Leinster now seem to be attracting most of the best Irish players to a limited number of clubs.
This has always happened.
The policies of the branches are not to blame but the amount of money open to schools to put teachers and coaches in place and the ability of the the sport to hold onto the limited number of players against more attractively markeded sports.
Saying that the ladies league is more competitive is maybe true but mainly due to the fact that the standards have fallen, in fact the standards have dropped all over the country. We now have a lot less quality players in every club not matter what level they play.
Hockey is a numbers game the more numbers the more good players you get the stronger the teams the stronger the league the stronger the sport.
Grow up and look at the real picture the country is falling apart and when this happens minority sports will fall by the wayside. The aim for hockey is to survive, to keep coaching children, marketing the game well and retaining players. but I fear governement policy seems to be to look after those who have big voting rights, the GAA, and this sport has no say or pull on a national stage.
anon – February 5th – 7.43 am
To say that numbers are falling all over the country is not true. In Munster alone, we have maintained our numbers of men (Ashton have introduced a second team since January) and we are increasing the womens game all the time – Limerick have added 2 teams in 2 years, plus we have seen the emergence of clubs like Bruff and a new junior club in Limerick city – Munster women’s hockey is actually growing.
Our underage systems have grown again this year, take a trip to Quins or CI this weekend for the regional festivals and watch 800 kids playing minihockey at U10 and U12. 250 boys played last week in Limerick. We have boys now playing in Fermoy, Clonmel and Waterford. In Leinster and Ulster many of the clubs are full on the underage side and can’t take anymore.
While there may be a lull in senior hockey at the moment, if clubs continue with where they are going, it won’t be long before our senior sides are flourishing. The women’s league is still strong, with a number of internationals (junior and senior) playing in them and the standard is improving.
I don’t think that standards are dropping either nationally. The senior women had their best ever finish in a Europeans last year and the men almost qualified for Beijing. Add in the IHL and how well Irish teams do in the EHL and it’s not as bad as you make out.
I’d be interested to know where you got your facts from!
I agree that there are huge numbers of kids involved in the clubs underage systems but 95% of them are girls. The problem is getting boys involved in the game with the counter attractions of GAA, rugby, soccer, etc.
The game has the potential to grow strongly and it is not big money sponsorship from the government that works well but rather a grassroots effort at club level and sharing information about successful inititives and programmes along with centralised leadership and an overall plan.
The IHA has been working hard to develop these but most of the work is at underage level where it is not highly visible. Primary school children in particular are the future of the game and it must be a long term sustainable plan. Even tho results might takes years to materialise if the underage set up is strong the game will grow and this is where we must concentrate resources. What we are witnessing now is the result of neglect from many years ago. There are no quick solutions.
Children have much more exposure to high level hockey now on the internet and the game is much more attractive to play then previously as most of the clubs have good pitches.
What I would like to see is better sharing between the clubs or some form of wiki/booklet available where the most successful development initiatives could be posted. Eg. when to introduce younger players to senior training, marketing initiatives that worked well (visiting a school in person/posting notices on noticeboards etc)
Underage Boys Hockey is doing extremely well across Munster in certain Clubs – there are large groups of boys in Primary Schools who will play Hockey until they enter the Secondary System. This Group is then split up and encounters a school where Hockey is very much down the list. The challenge is to keep boys from 12 – 16 playing where they then have opportunities to play Munster Hockey and aim for Provincial Representation.
Limerick has 1 School which plays Hockey and promotes the sport – realistically at least 50% of Boys when they hit 13 will walk away and play Rugby, Soccer and GAA – and this is down to the organization and availability of competitions and Games within those sports. The Branch are working hard to create an U14 League but until it is treated the same as Senior Leagues i.e. Fixtures decided by the branch not clubs then the U14 League will not prove to be the bridge to Senior Hockey it is hoped for..
what also needs to stop is ‘the stealing’ of plyers by clubs. this has been happening between c of i and harlequins for years and now it is spreading to limerick and institute. this is not good for clubs who are looking to develope into top clubs. this needs to stop. the clubs need to stop having a feud between each other and get on with the game. the whole point of club hockey is to improve the standard being played in the country not to see who is the best in one provence.
I think that’s a naive statement to make – the whole purpose of Club Hockey is to beat the other clubs – with a healthy dose of rivalry – surely that’s why people take to the Pitch every week and what sport is all about? Clubs can co exist beside each other but still want to beat each other and develop the better team and club.Players mix after games and pretty much get on very well regardless of the result – but no one likes losing
If Munster Rugby was to take the view that it’s not really important to beat Leinster or if Cork Cork didn’t mind losing to Garryowen – as long as Rugby is being developed in the Province\Country people would think them mad..
Regarding feuds and stealing of players there has been movement between Institute & Limerick over the years – not all of it pleasant I admit – but both clubs are comfortable in their own skin these days and both are busy developing highly promising Junior Sections.I don’t see any players who have been stolen in the past few years. There are guys who have moved between the clubs but this is more an affinity with existing groups of friends than poaching of players.
Players are not stolen, they choose to leave due to a combination of factors. Among which are poor pitch, poor coaching, poor team, job requirements, study requirements, clash of personalities etc.
Over the last 30 years in my time in the sport the big tyeams have always attracted the players, this in my opinion will never stop.
If Kenny Morris had continued to play for Kilkeel, would he have played for Ireland, I doubt it.
This can be said about Robbie Taylor, Newry to Garvey, Stephen martin, Bangor to Befast YMCA.
The same can be said for many many players, the Harte brothers left bandon and Played for Quinsd, they wanted to play at a higher club level so they left, circumstances mean that they play for Pembroke now.
This will never change, you look at many of the Dublin teams and they have foreign international players and they attract players to their club. If I lived in Dublin, was an aspiring young player i would leave and try to reach the level of Cronje at Coriinthians, learn from Connor Harte, I would not stay with a club that cannot offer me that.
Thats what people do, they want to be at the best level weather in a job or in sport and if that can be met at another club or company thats what they will do, move.
Even if we raised the overall standard that every club had 6 teams and quality players in every team, players will still move on and will follow success or what they perceive as success.
Institute have a good set up and are having success so players see that and will beencouraged to move not by people approaching them but by the set up, the success on the pitch and maybe they just fancy a change.
A bit of data for you – on the mens side there have been 31 transfers between Munster clubs this season.
By the numbers Belvedere & C of I were the big losers; UCC gained the most.
# Transfers Out In
Ashton 0 4
Bandon 2 3
Belvedere 6 0
Cath Inst 0 3
Cork CofI 11 4
Galway 0 1
Harlequins 4 4
Limerick 2 0
Midleton 2 2
UCC 4 10
This of course does not take into consideration new players (from youths or from outside) or players leaving the Munster game (through giving up or moving away).
yes the standard of hockey boys is improvin in limerick and in villiers very recently. this is down to the good rivalry between limerick and institute and the now good senior coach (ex minor coach) in villiers. villiers seem to be able to compete with bandon and ashton at underage and maybe in a few years they will compete with them at senior level like the old days for villiers. with limerick mens they now have two teams and can compete with the big clubs. institute are getting along fine in division 1 and in division 3. yes they may be bottom but their defeats arnt as bad as last year or the year before. they need to get another school in limerick to play boys hockey. maybe comp or castletroy but this will probaly never happen since they are both big rugby schools. only time will tell.
limerick got a new transfer from france. a fella called matthieu pinar from douai hc in north east france near lillie. played french national third division zone 1.
this mite cause up roar and apologies 2 those who disagree. y not promote ashton, limerick and galway or maybe look into it. juz a suggestion. i think every1 needs to calm down.
Personally I can see why a talented player would leave a lower division club to join a higher one, if they were potentially going to play for Ireland. I may not like it, but I can see why it happens.
What I can’t see is why talented players move between first division clubs, for instance, in the women’s game, there are no fist division clubs without a good coach and good structures, perhaps they don’t have the quality of players but they are getting there.
To say that a move to a ”big club” is required for their development is untrue, as many of the clubs produce excellent players and some of the ”big clubs” have poorer standards in their underage systems than some of the smaller clubs.
What I think is a real shame is when young players are promised the world when they are ”encouraged” to join bigger clubs and they end up becoming anonymous, playing on the seconds or in Division 2 and they never play for the first team. If they had stayed with their own club, they may have played at a higher level.
If Munster Hockey is to improve, young players should stay in their own clubs. We need the league to be competitive and we will only get that if talented players who have been nurtured by their clubs, stay and play.
How much time and effort goes into a player from 7-15 years of age and then they leave to join a ”big club”? If you were to put a financial cost on it, it would be thousands – pitch hire, transport, man hours, social events etc. and the club weho loses that player is left with nothing but the knowledge that they have fed a player into a bigger system. Is this a good thing? I doubt it.
I think it is up to clubs to have a good look at themselves if they see their top players leaving and strive to improve standards and the culture in the club so that players can see a viable progression path in the club. Nobody wants to feel they are being held back by a club that is not ambitious enough.
With regards to children walking away when they are 15/16 in the weaker schools this could be due to the lack of interest from their peers. I think the Munster cheetahs approach is very good and should be expanded, promising players from schools where interest possibly not high can meet like minded peers and have exposure to good coaching with motivated players.
It is very easy to lose interest if their is not a definite coaching pathway within the school. Players find the school has taken them as far as it can and their peers are not that interested. At that age it is all about getting groups of people to stay in the game not individuals, ask them and see what they want.
Clubs in particular should look at having recruitment days and asking 15/16 year olds to play.